298 replies to this topic

[Cameron Swift]

Nick, on Jan 13 2012, 08:41 AM, said:

Can't we all just agree that Davey Richards is worse than Hitler?

I know you're being facetious, but at least Hitler could work a crowd.

[The Unholy Dragon]

...AHAHAHAHAHAHA! *sigs*

[JRV]

goodhelmet, on Jan 13 2012, 05:24 AM, said:

Kronos, on Jan 9 2012, 04:28 PM, said:

NintendoLogic, on Jan 9 2012, 03:13 PM, said:

ultimoDANK, on Jan 9 2012, 04:02 PM, said:

Ok I get it his pacing, structure, and selling suck

That's precisely it. To a lot of the people here, these are non-negotiable necessary conditions to be considered a good worker. Your Benoit hypothesis is never going to be addressed to your satisfaction because it involves proving a negative. It also involves the subconscious, which is inaccessible to the conscious mind by definition.

I think I'm the only one to admit that part of my dislike is tied to Benoit and Billington. But I have seen pretty much everyone else give logical reasons for what they dislike about his work.

Tying your dislike of Richards to Benoit and Billington is perfectly logical.

Because Davey spent much of his adolescence masturbating to Benoit/Dyno tapes?

Cameron Swift, on Jan 15 2012, 08:33 PM, said:

Nick, on Jan 13 2012, 08:41 AM, said:

Can't we all just agree that Davey Richards is worse than Hitler?

I know you're being facetious, but at least Hitler could work a crowd.

EYOOO

[NintendoLogic]

Cameron Swift, on Jan 15 2012, 02:33 PM, said:

Nick, on Jan 13 2012, 08:41 AM, said:

Can't we all just agree that Davey Richards is worse than Hitler?

I know you're being facetious, but at least Hitler could work a crowd.

This isn't really relevant to this thread, but given your comment and the picture in your signature, I feel compelled to post this.

[Cameron Swift]

NintendoLogic, on Jan 15 2012, 01:54 PM, said:

Cameron Swift, on Jan 15 2012, 02:33 PM, said:

Nick, on Jan 13 2012, 08:41 AM, said:

Can't we all just agree that Davey Richards is worse than Hitler?

I know you're being facetious, but at least Hitler could work a crowd.

This isn't really relevant to this thread, but given your comment and the picture in your signature, I feel compelled to post this.

I did almost use that one as my sig.

[goodhelmet]

Someone give me the backstory on that comic strip.

[Rev]

goodhelmet, on Jan 16 2012, 06:56 PM, said:

Someone give me the backstory on that comic strip.

Jay Pinkerton made a series of parodies of Spidey strips, among other things.

[Mike_2511]

Quote

I realize liking Richards isn't popular because he isn't a big guy, an old guy doing three moves and a piledriver in the middle of Tennessee, or a WWE JTTS doing seven minute matches on Superstars,

This.

I'm not saying Richards is even a good worker, but it's incredible the bias on here towards workers fitting the above criteria. I'm astonished at the love for present day Jerry Lawler, or Black Terry, or any veteran who does minimal stuff in the ring. Once a worker hits fifty on here they become suddenly great. Then again, there was a thread on here seven years ago where a ton of people tried to argue that Rosey and Torrie Wilson were better workers than Shawn Michaels.

They are both boring in their own ways. Cena is no more than a slightly above average worker, Richards probably the same. It's hard to get a full picture of either of them until they go outside their comfort zone. Would Richards be able to adapt his style to that of a WWE midcard worker? Would Cena be able to have move heavy workrate matches in an indy fed?

What is maybe somewhat interesting is how far the IWC has split, even amongst the 'smart fans'. You could go on another forum and get the exact opposite result of this. There's only really Punk and Danielson who get universal love as far as US workers go, even Mysterio is hated in many places for being stale and formulaic. Compare that to say 2002 when you'd have at least ten guys who were loved in most places. It seems mostly due to the schism of people who like spot heavy workrate workers like KENTA and Richards and those who like more formulaic, structured minimal guys like Cena and Henry who would have been considered 'WWE style' a few years ago and not involved in such a discussion.

[RandomAct]

It's because those guys actually work with their brain.  They are good enough to get a reaction and have a good match without killing themselves.  The Lawler stuff was easily the best stuff Miz did all year, and it wasn't because of Miz.  There is just a great appreciation around here for guys who are smart enough to go with "less is more".  I don't know why people treat that like a bad thing.  It's not their fault that guys like Davey do retarded shit for 30 minutes and struggle for a reaction past 15.

[DylanWaco]

I love how the "these guys just like old people cuz!" talking point gets trotted out as if the people who like guys like Finlay or Lawler or Terry aren't specifically stated why they enjoy them

[Phil Schneider]

My guess is that guy has never seen a Black Terry match, because " veteran who does minimal stuff in the ring" doesn't describe him at all. Of course it doesn't really describe Lawler either, especially when he works on the indies.

[Brian Fowler]

Not too mention the whole "only like old, fat guys who do nothing" meme kind of misses that most of the people on here who like Lawler/Henry/etc also like Rey, and Ziggler, and Daniel Bryan, and...

[Matt D]

Physicality is a crutch.

If you can't work hard, you HAVE to work smart.

And after you've seen guys work hard for long enough, it's a hell of a lot more interesting to watch them work smart.

OF course, hard AND smart is best.

[S.L.L.]

Brian Fowler, on Jan 17 2012, 11:28 PM, said:

Not too mention the whole "only like old, fat guys who do nothing" meme kind of misses that most of the people on here who like Lawler/Henry/etc also like Rey, and Ziggler, and Daniel Bryan, and...

Expanding that, the point is hurt by the diversity of stuff the guys who "just like big guys, old guys, and WWE JTTS'" have pretty diverse tastes.

In 2010, the three big scenes that your Segunda Caida/ProWrestlingOnly/Wrestling KO types were really into were IWRG, FUTEN, and WWE undercards. Those are three scenes that have nothing whatsoever in common with one another other than producing lots of really good wrestling. In 2011, it was more about CMLL than IWRG, WWE uppercards than undercards, and we're still waiting on most of the FUTEN. Also there was Finlay fightin' 'round the world, which definitely counts for something. Again, nothing that has anything to do with one another. And that's not even digging into all the other stuff we've liked throughout the history of wrestling.

Ultimately, if you're saying "they only like this, this, and this," when you try to connect the dots, what you're really saying is "they only like good wrestling". So, yeah, I admit my bias against shitty wrestling prevents me from liking Davey Richards.

[Rev]

Phil Schneider, on Jan 17 2012, 07:46 PM, said:

My guess is that guy has never seen a Black Terry match, because " veteran who does minimal stuff in the ring" doesn't describe him at all. Of course it doesn't really describe Lawler either, especially when he works on the indies.

It isn't "less is more" as much as they know what to do and WHEN to do it.

[ZThomas]

Matt D, on Jan 18 2012, 12:06 AM, said:

And after you've seen guys work hard for long enough, it's a hell of a lot more interesting to watch them work smart.

OF course, hard AND smart is best.

I know alot guys here loved "Taker vs HHH at WM27 but I didnt. When I hear Nash shit on ECW & Indie wrestling in general this match embodied all that he seemed to hate about it.

I know both guys attempted to top "takers series with HBK but the psychology was bad to me. I've never big a big fan of Hunter but I expected better from  him and it amazes me that that match was billed as one of the greatest matches ever. That match represents every thing that they want there developmental and young talent to stay away from.

[Phantom Lord]

All this talk about old guys who do next to nothing after they hit 50, when Davey Richards is 50 you think he's going to be doing the same stupid stuff he's doing now?

Hell if he continues on his current career path to be the 2010's Dynamite/Benoit, wrestling past 40 probably won't happen.

[LooseCannon]

So, John Cena vs John Cena in a John Cena on a pole match inside a steel John Cena is better than Davey Richards vs Davey Richards in a Davey Richards on a pole match inside a steel Davey Richards, right?

Anyways, I just remembered that in the Cena vs Kerry Von Erich thread, I suggested a diverse list of ten wrestlers and asking who would you rather see wrestle each of those guys (in their prime).  The list I came up with was:

Andre the Giant
Rey Mysterio (Jr)
Randy Savage
George "The Animal" Steele
Harley Race
Bret Hart
Sabu
Sid Vicious
"Hacksaw" Jim Duggan
Billy Gunn/Kip James

The list probably needs tweaking.  Now that I think about it, Davey Richards might be an interesting addition, to fill that modern indy-tastic niche.

[Oatz]

M-e-h, everyone in WWE is obsessed with workrate and take themselves way too seriously for a wrestling show, and when they get silly, is humor marketed to 12 year olds. Raw lost his appeal to me a long time ago and not even some rare moments of brilliance by Punk or Cena change that. It doesn't matter if you have Colt Cabana as your top superstar if the product is going to be the same as with Batista or Triple H.

With that said Richards has his flaws but I have changed my mind about him, sure he is mediocre compared to Lawler and Terry but Cena just doesn't have the matches Davey has. It's not about moves or workrate, I'd rather watch any Lawler-heel than Davey-Black, but the later is still more appealing than the old tired formula of WWE for big matches, be with Cena, Punk, Christian or Jericho. Cena-Punk was an exception because of the extraordinary circumstances surrounding it.