14 replies to this topic

[TIA]

Hey guys.

This is something that I have been wondering for a little while in regards to the NFL.

Down here in Australia beating the opposition is the key. The score doesn't matter. In the average Aussie Rules game you can expect to score around 80-100 points and the average winning margin is around 25-30 points. However in the last season alone there were 10 or so games where teams won by over 100 points. The championship team even had 2 victories of 150+ and 180+ during the season and while there was a little concern about these results it was more about the poor state of the losing teams rather than the ruthless effort of the winning team.

During the recent Saints v Colts game I was interested to hear that there was concern as to how high the Saints would go with 'running up the score' and that they should back off. I also remember during the Patriots dominating run a couple of years ago that people were worried with them scoring 40-50 points every week.

I've never heard this talk in any other sport. Baseball, Hockey, Basketball, Soccer, Rugby..... All sports seem to be ok with scoring as much as possible and putting the onus on the opposition to try and stop you. In the NFL however it seems like once you are 3 TD's or so in front you should take your foot off the gas.

Just wondering why this is??

[KoC]

It's because people need something to whine about when the game is over. As much as I hate New England, I've always liked Bellicheck's idea of using that garbage time to work on different situations when they can.

Another thing is people get worried that a star player is going to get hurt, and it just makes it worse if the game is a blowout and he didn't need to be in there.

[piranesi]

This came up in the Soccer thread a few months ago and here is what I wrote there.  I know the rules for substitutions are not the same for Aussie Football, and I don't know about things like point differential, but maybe some of this still applies:

Quote

In the NFL "points scored" or point differential will never play a role in determining your chances of getting into the playoffs. There are like 8 or 9 tiebreaking criteria before that. So, there is no real point other than to try and humiliate a team that has probably already started playing their scrubs.

Also, you can make as many subs as you want. So, if a game is out of hand, you can sub the entire starting line with 2nd or 3rd string guys to give them experience and to avoid injury risk to your starters. So, you're not even really playing your real teams by the end of the game.

American football is very machiavellian in that way. By the time a game is out of hand, you are already planning how the end of this game might impact your next game which means trying to do as little as possible, or just working on something you'd like to practice. No one cares about beauty of victory or strength of victory. Win is win. 1 point or 30. It's still one win.

[Brian Fowler]

It definitely comes up in basketball, although generally at lower levels than the NBA.

Baseball it doesn't for a very simple reason:  There is no clock, and thus, there is no actual "insurmountable" lead.  It can be highly unlikely, but a team can score any number of runs even when on their last out in the 9th.  So it is virtually always important to keep trying to score runs.

As far as football goes...  running up the score doesn't bother me much.  Not at all at the pro level, and very little below that.  I personally was on the winning side of some sick blowouts in highschool, including a freshmen game we won 60-0 that easily could have been 100-0 if we had left out starting tailbacks in.  Even our third string backs were breaking off 20+ yard runs.  (Not bragging, I mean, this was freshman football.)   And I'm generally of the opinion "if you are mad about them scoring, fucking stop them."

But, that said, it does show a bit of poor sportsmanship to be throwing into the endzone up 35 points with 3 minutes to play.

[Fat Spanish Waiter]

If I'm a starting NFL QB, I want to maximise my stats all the time, every time. If that means adding 14 points on to a 35 point lead, so be it.

[piranesi]

Fat Spanish Waiter, on Oct 28 2011, 09:40 AM, said:

If I'm a starting NFL QB, I want to maximise my stats all the time, every time. If that means adding 14 points on to a 35 point lead, so be it.

[Ditka]You want to know how little I care about your fuckin stats, kid?  Hand the ball to your goddamned fullback three times and then sit the fuck down when I tell you to.[/Ditka]

I think, for whatever reason, stats-padding is a bigger deal in college where there's like 1000 players trying to get national attention.  In the NFL, the people who matter see through that and would rather know that you know your place in the chain of command.  Especially if you've reached the point of "starting NFL QB."  At that point, your play and results are under a different kind of scrutiny than just looking over numbers totals...with the one exception being "number of wins."

[Fat Spanish Waiter]

I suppose. But I'd hate to think that I had a chance of outperforming the Ol' Gunslinger and ruining his year but didn't because the team were battering chumps and I had to relax.

[DeadAndRestless]

You keep a QB in the game past the point that he needs to be there and you risk someone taking a cheap shot at him or any other star players. Guys that go for stats in the NFL are not well loved; They're the TOs of the world.

[AxB]

But at the same time, it's a game that has a Hall of Fame. And generally that means that guys would rather be in it than not. Having things like game/ season/ career scoring records, might help you in that regard, no?

Depending on the team's mindset, it might help give you an intimidation factor as well - the impression of unstoppability. But obviously I'm looking at it as someone who grew up on Association Football, not Gridiron, where Goal Difference can be very important indeed.

[SorceressKnight]

Quote

You keep a QB in the game past the point that he needs to be there and you risk someone taking a cheap shot at him or any other star players. Guys that go for stats in the NFL are not well loved; They're the TOs of the world.

But on the flipside, and this goes back to the "talking heads/fans need something to complain about" real issue- this era has put players into an era where they really can't win in this. If you keep players in the game, you risk injury and get media/fans angry for running up the score- but if you take star players out of the game when they run up the score and they don't go for stats, you'll get the fans who have those players on their fantasy team angry that they had worse stats (and we've seen it this year- guys like Arian Foster who have the guts to say "I don't give a fuck about your fantasy team" are just as hated as the TOs who go for stats.)

[Charlie M.]

If you're a Hall of Fame level player, you're gonna get your stats regardless.  

Running up the score is a big deal in hockey and is often met with physical violence and bodily harm.  

My rule would generally be that it's okay to run up the score on a shitty team but be careful if you happen to catch a good team or a rival on a bad night.  In a contact sports, players remember when they've been humiliated and you never know how they're going to react.  

Besides I often felt like it's more demoralizing to know that the other team took it easy on you.  That's just sad.  Having the score run up on you makes you angry and it sticks with you.

[Dewar]

In association soccer, where there's only so many substitutions you can make, it's hard to avoid running up the score. We played a team this summer that showed up with 8 players (a 9th eventually showed up), and we drilled them 13-1. I was pissed we gave up the one, so the defenders got stuck playing defense longer, since the original plan was to switch everyone's positions once we got ahead by enough goals, the forwards were going to play defense, the defense were going to play forward.

In American football, with so much physicial contact on every play, once you get ahead by a certain amount, you want your best players out of there, so they don't take any more punishment than needed, and like Faithless Shitbum said, you start running up the score in a hockey game, and it's fight time.

[Tabe]

I don't much care about "running up the score" at the pro level.  In general, it's frowned upon because the feeling is that either somebody will take a cheap shot at a star player or that the other team will do the same thing back to you at some point.  But those dudes are professionals and if they don't like getting crushed, too bad.

At levels where guys aren't getting paid?  Then I have a problem with it.  Houston is up 40 on Rice and still has their starting QB in?  Goes for it on 4th & 2 by going play action and throwing deep?  Not at all cool.  

The reason is simple - in high school and college (and lower levels as well, obviously) you can end up with matchups where one team is simply overmatched.  And the intent of amateur athletics is to breed sportsmanship, along with all the physical benefits.  Humiliating or taking advantage of an opponent simply should not enter into the equation.  

I was a high school football and baseball coach and have seen it from all sides.  Up 50 in a freshman basketball game, coach?  It really is OK to stop full-court pressing the 5th string point guard playing his first game while you fast break and shoot 3s going the other way.  Up 14 with :20 left to play in a freshman football game?  It really is OK to not call timeout to try and score again cuz ya just might be on the other end of it the following year.  

Oh, and it absolutely is possible to run up the score in baseball, at least at lower levels.  And you can do your best to control it.  You tell your guys to not advance on balls that could be sacrifices.  You stop stealing.  You don't have guys score from first on a double.  You hold guys on wild pitches.  And so on.

Tabe

[Death From Above]

Faithless Shitbum, on Oct 30 2011, 01:12 AM, said:

Running up the score is a big deal in hockey and is often met with physical violence and bodily harm.

I would asterisk this by saying that in modern NHL hockey it's almost impossible to run up the score unless a goalie is just having an awful night, and if someone is going to flub easy shots from 30 feet there's really not anything you can do about it, and rarely is that going to be a problem.

But yeah, if you are up by 5 in the third and still putting your first power play unit on the ice... well, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to work out that tempers are going to flare. And most coaches will just start rolling out the checking line for a little bonus time instead.

[Suicide King of Spades]

Weird place to post this, maybe, but it's college football and I couldn't find a more appropriate thread.

Florida State is favored by 10 in their game this Saturday... and by 10 I mean 10 touchdowns.  So we'll see how high they decide to run it up.

http://espn.go.com/c...state-seminoles