So, does this put Jim in charge of the Scranton branch? Based off past instances of him being in charge, it ain't gonna be pretty.

Holly is HR, Charles is a regional VP so it's not like she'd come back to replace him. Only way Holly comes back is if Toby goes to chase his dream again.

Dude, it's Dunder Mifflin. Ryan went from never making a sale to that VP spot with apparently his good looks, a dream, and the fact that he was still working on his business degree. So never say never on who gets what job, which is why I still don't think it's out of the realm for Pam to move up somehow.

Ryan had completed his degree; Wallace told him something to the effect that it would be nice to have a fellow MBA in New York.

That was a really nifty turn last night. The new boss is not only an outsider to the Scranton branch, he is also an outsider to the whole attitude of the show. He represents where the country is now regarding "the workplace" (which is thankful to still have one if you do and willing to pitch in to keep things running) whereas Jim and the rest are still stuck in the sitcom world of 2003-2004, (in which the office is hell and you can take it or leave it).

It's odd, at the beginning of the show's run, Jim's character was supposed to be the voice of, like us, or something and this was a pretty bleak and interesting way to acknowledge that the audience is in a different state of mind today than four years ago and that the idea of playing pranks while a middling company struggles to survive is in its way as clueless an attitude as Michael's.

Holy crap piranesi,

That's a brilliant observation. I never thought of it like that...I think you hit the nail on the head.

If the writers are as astute as you are, we are about to have an exceptional end to this season.

I just fear this will end up being a case of "Charles does something minor, he gets fired/relocated, everything goes back to normal." Because I really think they struck gold with this new character.

Charles as Superintendent Chalmers ruled. Definitely looking forward to what he does in the future, and next week's ep has a huge hook thanks to Michael "quitting".

Gets caught having a three-way with Angela and Kelly.

I dunno if this was wrong, but Charles seemed to totally have everything together and I like Charles. I know we've grown to like and love these characters, but I couldn't really fault Charles for his reactions to all the nonsense and trying to put a stop to it. I kind of don't want Charles to be an antagonist because he really was right in everything he said and did. But due to the characters and their roles in the show, he's still an antagonist. However, if all that ended, then this show wouldn't be The Office. And it would be over.

He's not even a superintendent Chalmers because Chalmers was just as wacky as the rest of the Simpsons crew and Skinner as well.

Charles didn't do a single thing wrong. What did he do to Jim? All he did is show much of an idiotic slacker Jim has been at Dunder Mifflin. The only time he was motivated to do things at work was when he wanted to propose to Pam and look good for her parents. 90% of Jim's work output is getting a rise out of Michael or Dwight.

I think that was the point. He's only doing the job he's been hired to do. Basically, it's like The Office is showing that nearly five years of actions might have consequences.

Good call back to Ryan's degree. I forgot about that, and figured that the time between the Business School and Season 3 finale episodes wouldn't have been great enough for to have officially graduated.

Yeah but Scranton is the only branch doing well and Jim is the top salesman there. Its been a running storyline of Wallace trying to find out how Micheal is doing this.

Yeah, Jim has stated in the past how quickly he's able to get all of his actual work responsibilities done.

I think in this point of economic uncertainty even the writers don't know how Micheal is staying successful. Just keep that in mind for future episodes. Because realistically watching this past season, Michael would have been the FIRST person to go... And that's what made this last episode a stroke of genius, as piranesi pointed out. It's as if the original writers woke up and saw where the real world was. Yes, The Office shouldn't be funny now. But if they still made it so, The Office would be the greatest F***'N' show on television.

Given all this talk about the show adapting to the tone of the country, Michael quitting becomes maybe the most wide-angle joke they've ever done. It wasn't an obviously funny moment until you think how perfectly in character it is for Michael to choose the absolute worst moment in, like, the last 60 years to quit a job. Which of course follows up on his buying a condo at what ended up being precisely the moment of highest prices just before the real estate crash.

It's just perfect. and they can probably run with unemployed, hobo Michael for the rest of the season, maybe ending with him throwing rocks into the quarry with Creed.

Years from now when this show is in reruns and you're watching it with your kids, hopefully you'll have to point out "So, this is a Charles episode...this one is from when we had that little depression on...you're too young to remember that."

Is it really conceivable that Dunder Mifflin can survive the recession at all given that it was called "a failing paper company" as early as the pilot? No one has even been laid off in three years (Devon?) if you discount all of the transfers from Stanford (although they did make some sort of reference to Ryan making less money than Jan did).

I would love to see Michael try to convince Charles or David to lobby congress for a bailout.

Does Dunder-Mifflin really need the mid-town Manhattan corporate offices, it seems like a "failing paper company" would have it's HQ in some suburban office park.

It seems like they could probably get by with just doubling up and having their corporate offices out of the same office park as one of their current branches. Like instead of whatever is on the floor above the Scranton branch now you could have the corporate offices.

Awesome episode. I watched the previous week's ep for the first time right before this one and just when I thought I couldn't dislike Charles more, he keeps acting like a tool. Yes, I know he's a "real businessman" interacting with the laziness/tomfoolery of these characters we all love, but really what kind of douche acts like that around people he's just met. Not letting Michael even say goodbye was really low. The ending with Pam was fantastic and the other ending with Kevin and Stanley was almost better. I'm really they didn't send Michael out by himself. I'm really looking forward to see where this goes.

Why did Pam go with Michael? Does she really think Michael can do it, or was it because she didn't like Charles' treatment of Michael?
"This is a dream that I've had since lunch, and I'm not giving up on it now!"

Michael not giving a crap is glorious. Raiding the fridge and eating other's food, throwing random things at people busy at work, drinking Scotch with Splenda.

Such little things...my favorite exchange:
<Creed drops change into the copy machine vent>
Oscar: "I think its 75 cents."
Creed: "That's alot!"

Charles selections at the end couldn't have been worse if he tried...maybe that just shows that he isn't as good as he thinks he is? He is new afterall...

AND...Prince Paper DID go out of business!

Because Michael's final pitch to the office included him saying (paraphrasing) "do you want to be here for the rest of your life?" The camera caught the look on her face, wherein Michael's words really hit her. After her ordeal w/ the copier, she finally (FINALLY!) decided she'd had enough of being a secretary.


Prince Paper
Other companies

Oh come on. Michael would have blathered on and on until it was time to go home anyway. And Charles knew it. I think it's kind of odd the reaction some people are having to Charles. Michael did about ten douchier things in this episode alone than any bad thing Charles has done. But he's funny, so apparently he gets a pass.

Good episode, though nowhere near last week's bombshell. I think we're getting an inkling of things to come with Charles what with that last segment. I'm guessing he turns into the boss who is constantly giving tasks to the least qualified people to handle them. And when chaos ensues...

Got to hand it to the writers though. Taking from Jerry MaGuire AND the ending of The Graduate all in thirty seconds....



Pam realized her career was at a dead-end after getting a little too excited about getting the copier to work, and decided working with Micheal was at least SOMETHING that might be more fulfilling.

Yeah, Michael's an idiot, but Charles waltzed into Dunder-Mifflin with no regard for how Michael ran his own company. Michael was the only one who's branch was making money, David obviously wanted to keep him, but Charles is such a no nonsense, all business type of guy that he can't have room for another type of atmosphere at work. So Jim wore a tux to work, that automatically puts him on the s-list? And wasn't Jim's #2 job appointed by David or Jan or someone, not based off of the fake Dwight one?

Basically, it doesn't matter if Charles' is "right", Michael is our character, and Charles is acting like a jerk to him. Plus Charles hasn't shown any qualities that would endear him to the viewer, only strong work ethic. So yeah, sympathy is totally with Michael.

Yep, came with a pay raise to. Hate that kind of stuff.

I don't know if his choices at the end were that bad. In the Halloween episode of season 2, Kevin said something about how accounting only needed two employees. Considering he doesn't even balance his own travel receipts, I'd say moving him from accounting is a good move. Stanley is just about the only guy in the branch that deserves a higher position. He gets his stuff done and doesn't take any shit from anyone.

But the closing looks Stanley & Kevin had at the end, kind of told the story...

"I've been asking for more responsibility...but now I have to DO something...oh crap."

Stanley and Kevin are the last guys to ever ask for more responsibility. Stanley would be perfectly fine doing a sales call in between his crossword puzzles and just getting through his day with as little BS as possible. Kevin is irresponsible and a goof and he seems to be at least somewhat aware of it. He knows that more responsibility is the last thing he needs.

I took their looks as being "hey I'm a monosyllabic near-tard and they want ME to answer the phones and be the public voice/face of this branch?" and "They want me to be responsible for other people's productivity? I can hardly be bothered to talk to my coworkers, I'm sure as hell not going to be checking up on their work". Just my take.

Yeah, you're right...good call.

I dunno. I just don't find myself rooting for Michael right now.

I like Charles, and I thought his brief little interview parts were awesome. So what if he's a strict work environment guy. There's nothing wrong with that. He didn't BS anybody when he came in like Michael often does. He doesn't say offensive shit constantly. He doesn't bully Tobey who is a nice guy.

Michael has done some of the worst and most cruel things one human being can do to another. Charles I don't find cruel at all. He's just no-nonsense. And he was at least nice enough to buy everyone at the office lunch.

I get why people like Michael and are sympathetic for him. But, I don't think that undoes any of the offensive and ridiculous shit he's done.

Normally, I'd agree. I'm not a huge Michael fan. But Charles is just so off putting to me for some reason. I don't like people who come in and steam roll the atmosphere that I'm comfortable and happy with. It's comparable to the UK Office with David and Neil. Only diff is I loved David Brent despite his obvious faults so when Neil eventually led to David leaving that really pissed me off. This situation is similar, mostly in that Charles is making me side with Michael (who is not as likable as David Brent IMO)

My only dislike of Charles getting Michael tossed out was that it never got physical beyond Charles attempting to come after Michael and Michael shitting his pants before he ran for his life.

Fuck Michael Scott. Really. When Kevin had that skin cancer scare and itwas Michaels birthday, Michael totally out assholed every tv/film boss asshole type of the last 2o years. Michael outing Oscar, Michael's bullshit grudge against Toby and all the shit he's dealt Toby thru the years, all the shit with outing his affair with Jan and the shit with breaking word about Jim's crush on Pam.

Seriously fuck Michael, I wish Charles would've manhandled him and thrown him out of the building ckkunt first.

I mean, ok, the reveals into Michaels' childhood might've made him endearing. "I want to have 100 kids and they'll all be my friends that way no one can say they don't want to be my friend," I'm paraphrasing but that line almost warmed me to the character.

But fuck no. Toby trying to reach out to Michael during the lunch when Jan was suing the company and Michael just knocked Toby's lunch down. Fuck him. Toby, despite all the shit he's eaten from Mike, is trying to console Michael at a very low point, and Michael is a total asshole about it. Toby returning, and Michael getting all ckkunt-hurt about him, fuck Michael. Toby's last day, and Michael having that fucked up list of exit interview questions "How dare you?" "Who do you think you are?" Fuck Michael.

Kevin's cancer episode. Michaels' all ckunt-sore that nobody's giving a damn about him, then Michael finds out why and still acts like a bitch. Fuck Michael. That christmas episode where Michael got Ryan the ipod and then made up that fucked up game of switching presents just because he got a handknit mitt from Phyllis. Then Michael ruining shit left & right and nearly destroying careers and personal lives.

again, Michael outing Oscar as gaey, Michael dropping all the hints & teases about him and Jan leading to all the problems with Jan, spilling Jim's secret and making shit tense at the office.

I know in my heart of hearts that Michael Scott will eventually worm back into Dunder Mifflin, but I wasn't more happier than seeing Stringer fucking Bell get swole on Michael and get ready to put the beat down on that bitch.

Sorry to rant, but I've been waiting for this shit to happen for the longest time.


Like the Todd Packer shit-gift he left in Michael's office. Michael ruins everyone's fucking day whining and bitching and making the office a living hell. Then Packer reveals it's a joke, and suddenly Michael's laughing like its the funniest shit since Phyllis saying her most attractive feature was her "boobs" or whatever she said about her big ole' titties.

Or the death of Michael's boss, and Michaels walking around ckunnt-hurt because nobody else gives a fuck that the boss got his decap itated from his head.

It's also preferring the devil you know to the devil you don't. Michael is an ass but you know exactly how he's an ass. Charles will have his faults, as everyone does, but we don't know what they are yet. He could end up being just as big an ass, but in a totally unexpected way.

Wow MrButcherer why do you even watch the show if you can't stand the main character so much. And obviously if I met Michael in real life, I'd feel probably the same (or I'd find him so funny to laugh at (not with) that I'd warm up to him), but it's a TV show. He's a character who has major faults yet he's the main part of the show. But offspring515 put it best, he's "the devil you know".

And I need to restate that Charles f'ing with Jim is getting to me just as much if not more than Michael.

Without taking it to the extremes that butcherer did, it's just a matter of Michael Scott being an unlikeable boss who has traits we all can recognize, but the writers take it a little too far, and he turns into a douchebag asshole who is becoming more and more a sitcom character and less and less a realistic person. It's like Homer Simpson starting off as a goofball employee though now he's so dumbed down he doesn't even know what country he lives in anymore (he thought the US was China, for example.)

Charles reels him back to reality. He's not likable, he's not funny. But he makes the show feel believable again. To me a sitcom is funny when the plotlines make sense. Yes, I know it's a TV show, but part of what makes The Office (and the UK version) so great is that it tries to play off like real life. David Brent FELT like a total asshole boss who cared only about himself, but he still had those human qualities that made you root for him anyway. Michael for most of this season resembled that, they toned him down from a sociopathic asshole into the guy who was a self-absorbed jerk, but just wanted to be loved. Now, he's turned back into a MADTV recurring character (the obnoxious asshole oblivious to how miserable he is making everybody while they just stand around and put up with it.) I guess when I see Scott being too much of a dick (eating Phyllis's lunch then spitting it back, publicly getting drunk during office hours, shitting on Andy's present), I get frustrated because it doesn't make any sense that he does such incredibly rude things, and everybody just shrugs their shoulders or stares directly at the camera. It's just too easy of a laugh now.

As much as I have loved most of this season, I am really dreading the prospect of Michael and Pam magically resurrecting both their careers through some miracle plot line. Because Michael at rock bottom could be some comedy gold.

And I'm dreading Charles getting fired so everything can return to normal again.

Because its funny. Even though I don't "like like" Michael, and I'm not rooting for Michael, I still think he's a funny character.

I like Charles because of his simple little aside, "I'm aware of the affect I have on women." I mean, I think he gets it. He's not a bad guy, but he upsets the balance of the chaos that is the Office, and I suppose that's ultimately why he has to leave. As big of an asshole douchebag Michael is, I suppose the employees would rather have Michael bossing them around and making them do stupid stuff instead of Charles actually making them do ACTUAL work.

Also, Jim is not a choir boy. I think he has earned his scrutiny.

Hey Beast, like TheVileOne pointed out, its funny. Michael's getting stumped every now & then plus the antics of the rest of the cast keep me coming back for more. From Phyllis: "We're the same age Michael" & "In high school we all thought you were ghaey" Michael is constantly getting back a tiny smidgeon of the bullshit he puts his employees thru.

Getting the vasectomy, a reversal, and another vasectomy all because Jan couldn't make up her mind about being a mom. That killed me. That "Dinner" episode after the writers strike that got boo'ed on I actually loved, for seeing Michael taken down so many pegs from his Mighty High Self Esteem that he goes around with all the time.

So yeah, the show is comedic gold, like Michael having the Rabies charity run and forcing everyone into it (then watching Andy get bloody nipples) only to crap out and vomit all over from overstuffing himself, its shit like this that keeps me coming back.

Really, I might say that Michaels' antics only take up, maybe, 30% of the show, as far as his megalomaniacal antics, so its worth it to me to stick around knowing he'll get his eventually.


This new arc with Charles is like heavenly scoops of payback for all the bullshit of the last 4 seasons, and seeing Michael bellycrawl around and beg for somebody to come along, and see that NONE of them do (Pam doesn't count since she didn't get up till after he'd left and was already out the building) was rich.

Note: I've every season on dvd and I absolutely love the series. Earlier rant about Michael the character aside, this is a fulfilling tv viewing experience to me, so getting so invested into the characters is just a side effect of loving the show too much. I imagine had the web been around back when, you might've seen similar rants when Sam fell for Rebeccah after Diane left (no matter how they wrote the character off the show, to me Shelley Long was THE love interest, and no other). The uproar over Who Shot Jr., the ending with Newhart waking up and the whole running an Inn was just a dream, etc. would've had lots of similar rants of "Hey blahzay blahzay blahzay I love these characters blahzay blahzay blahzay"

I agree with basically everything you all just posted. I obviously didn't think my argument through long enough before posting. It's a hilarious show which is the main reason for most people to keep watching. I just don't find Charles likable in the least is what it comes down to. And it's not that I love Michael or Jim either; I'm more of an Andy and Kevin guy myself.

El oh El re: I just don't find charles likeable. I fully sympathize with Jim, as at work I personally kind of have a dead end job so I use the occasional 'soft prank' to liven things up. Won't go into details but I've raised some chuckles and some hell in my tenure at work, so I fully see where Jim is coming from. And seeing Jim getting steamrolled by Charles hasn't been fun.

But seeing how uncomfortable Jim is does crack me up, and reminds me of season 3 where he transfers to Stamford and gets picked on by Andy Karen and the boss guy for sucking at that FPS army game. Jim, like Michael, has a way of rebounding from awfulness so i'm not going nuts over Charles just yet, but he is not a favorite of mine when it comes to Jim.

I don't think that's accurate - 90% of Jim's TIME might be devoted to that, but the precedent has been set several times that Jim has very good numbers and is surprisingly productive.




I agree with a lot of this. One of the only things about the show that I really hate is when Michael does something rude or cruel for no reason.



Definitely agree. I think Charles is a brilliant choice for a new antagonist. I think the additional of someone who is an antagonist in the office just because he is 'normal' is pretty brilliant. And I gotta admit, I can't wait to see Charles get tossed out and things get back to normal. The Office exists as its own little universe, outsiders can't survive for long.

So, did anybody watch the 2 episodes last night? I loved them. I wish they would keep Vikram, I love that guy. Maybe when Michael Scott Paper Company expands, they'll take him on. I can somehow see MSPC getting on a roll and Dunder Mifflin buying him out and sticking him back in the branch. Nice swerve on the Andy/Dwight subplot too.

The Andy/Dwight duet had me rolling. The whole second episode was just incredibly funny, from the "new" credits, to the duet, to Ryan being a slacker loser, to Jim being clueless. I just loved the whole thing.

Last night featured two of the stronger episodes of the season. I love, love, love, that Jim is finally having a light cast upon his mediocrity by Charles. Andy and Dwight as bros that both have a crush on the same girl, but decide in the end to have a "bros before hos" attitude has some potential for an awesome confrontation in the future.

I will say I'm not totally sold on the Michael Scott Paper Company sub-plot, but to be honest, it's already working better than I expected and I think will provide big laughs now that they are in the same office building as Dundler-Mifflin. Perhaps I'm overthinking the details, but I would love to know more about the logistical side of their business, such as where they are getting there paper from.

So you know how we were all bitching about how all the relationship heavy stuff was killing the earlier episodes this season? Well apparently chicks dig that shit, because my best friend is convinced that the past few weeks are the worst episodes ever, because they are not focusing on relationships. I am just at a loss.

We might have gotten a glimpse into the status of Pam and Jim with Pam's rant to Michael about how she wanted to do something with her life. Then again this could just be reading too much into things.

The cold opening of the first episode was fantastic with the transfer screw-ups, everybody cheering and then Andy sitting there with tears in his eyes because his maid died.

Their probably getting paper direct from the manufacturers, Michael dealt with them in the past and they really wouldn't care who the middle man is.

Yeah, my wife is really upset with how Jim has been treated the last few episodes and dislikes that Pam and Jim aren't working together now. And, in the past whenever they've hinted that Jim and Pam might be having issues, that bugs her too. Of course, I always explain to her "You're reacting exactly how the writers and producers want you to."

This is the same woman that hates most gross-out comedies but loves "Zach and Miri Make a Porno" because of, you guessed it, the sweet love story involved.

I like the love-heavy episodes as much as the comedy heavy episodes, as long as there are characters like Ryan and Dwight and Andy in the background it's all good.

Ryan being picked up by his mother was great. Charles showed he was just as bad as Michael by blaming Jim for messing up Phyllis's nice. Man, booking ending Park and Recreations with The Office was a horrible idea and it made the show look like a pale knockoff.

It's been a loooong time since Dwight's been funny to me. But last night, sabotaging Jim...that was fantastic and reminds me of how in the past they went at eachother without Jim always dominating the relationship (Dwight stealing Jim's best client for instance).

"good ideas are just part of what I bring to the table....I don't try to be something I'm not."

Really? I thought "Parks and Recreations" was hilarious. Based on the first episode, I think it has a ton of potential. Amy Poehler was awesome in her role, as are all the local government supporting characters.