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piranesi
QUOTE
Jim was of two sides in this episode.



It was kind of startling how much Jim looked/sounded like Roy (at Pam's art show) during that last scene. I don't think it was a coincidence that Jim pronounced "the" in "the ashes" the way Roy pronounced "the" whenever he would refer to Pam's drawings as "the art" (as "thuh" and not "theeee")

Toby: Who was the main character?

Jim: Angela...no....the Ashes...

Pam: [silently] Sorry...
lucyisblue
I don't see Pam and Jim sticking together. I think Pam is starting to realize that there are many things about Jim that she didn't know and the fact that he hasn't pursued any of his dreams is starting to make him look pathetic. Also, Jim not taking the Finer Things Club seriously is going to start bugging her. Though it is a stupid club.
NapDaddy
QUOTE(lucyisblue @ Nov 2 2007, 12:00 PM) *
I don't see Pam and Jim sticking together. I think Pam is starting to realize that there are many things about Jim that she didn't know and the fact that he hasn't pursued any of his dreams is starting to make him look pathetic. Also, Jim not taking the Finer Things Club seriously is going to start bugging her. Though it is a stupid club.


I really think the Finer Things Club is probably a one-off joke, so she won't have the opportunity to let it bug her.
lucyisblue
QUOTE(NapDaddy @ Nov 2 2007, 12:39 PM) *
QUOTE(lucyisblue @ Nov 2 2007, 12:00 PM) *
I don't see Pam and Jim sticking together. I think Pam is starting to realize that there are many things about Jim that she didn't know and the fact that he hasn't pursued any of his dreams is starting to make him look pathetic. Also, Jim not taking the Finer Things Club seriously is going to start bugging her. Though it is a stupid club.


I really think the Finer Things Club is probably a one-off joke, so she won't have the opportunity to let it bug her.


Yeah, but Jim doesn't take a lot of things seriously.
Roman Coke
After re-watching the episode, I've decided Andy is one of my favorite characters on the show.

"The Finer Things Club is the most exclusive club in this office. Naturally, it's where I need to be. The Party Planning Committee is my back up...Kevin's band is my safety."
HACC Piston
"Rolando told me everything." is just great writing.
Cell
QUOTE(lucyisblue @ Nov 2 2007, 11:00 AM) *
I don't see Pam and Jim sticking together. I think Pam is starting to realize that there are many things about Jim that she didn't know and the fact that he hasn't pursued any of his dreams is starting to make him look pathetic. Also, Jim not taking the Finer Things Club seriously is going to start bugging her. Though it is a stupid club.



There is no way this show doesn't end with the two of them together, they may break up before it ends, but when it does end they will be together.
Stuttsy
I agree. One potential ending given the way this new plot has them going might be them breaking up because of Jim's complacency and then by the end of the show's run Pam (and really both of them) realize that the silly office is where they're meant to be or whatever and live happily ever after.

But yeah, PB&J have to live happily ever after at the end.
The Great ML
Well, Pam & Jim are breaking up sooner rather than later, from what I can tell...Jim's about to crack.

http://www.nbc.com/The_Office/video/#mea=176823

Shylock
QUOTE(The Great ML @ Nov 3 2007, 11:29 AM) *
Well, Pam & Jim are breaking up sooner rather than later, from what I can tell...Jim's about to crack.

http://www.nbc.com/The_Office/video/#mea=176823
That's a bit much to assume from this clip, especially considering the situation he fell into in this episode.
IsaacDuke
You know, it IS possible to read too much into nothing.
Roman Coke
Isn't it any Office fans job to do that, though?
IsaacDuke
Not really. I mean, yeah, it's fun to speculate on what will happen by the time the season is over, but this isn't LOST.
Goddamn, sometimes I'm glad the internet didn't come around sooner. I can picture folks gathered their computers and dissecting each Sam and Diane scene from Cheers in 1986 right now.
Robert
Listen Issac, all I have to say to you is Pam didn't call Jim the day of the Diwali party.

Rob
Roman Coke
QUOTE(IsaacDuke @ Nov 3 2007, 08:27 PM) *
Not really. I mean, yeah, it's fun to speculate on what will happen by the time the season is over, but this isn't LOST.
Goddamn, sometimes I'm glad the internet didn't come around sooner. I can picture folks gathered their computers and dissecting each Sam and Diane scene from Cheers in 1986 right now.


Oh, I thought it was some kind of requirement to being an Office fan that you had to speculate every word from every character. That's a relief.
Stuttsy
I am glad there is one more episode left but man, what a perfect episode this would have been to "end" on for now, as it leaves so much up in the air about Jim but still reached a resolution of sorts. I loved the ending scene with Jim & Michael so, so much.
CodySave
This episode was unusual in that by far the most important scene was the interaction between Jim and Michael during the final minute, which is usually only reserved to show a funny clip that didn't fit into the rest of the episode.

Honestly, this was a pretty forgettable episode, save the critical scene mentioned above where Jim realized he might be stuck in Scranton after all.

I don't watch a lot of NBC, but both 30 Rock and The Office seemed off tonight because of having to fit NBC's "Green Week" episode theme requirements. There were a few funny moments, but Michael's "Survivorman" attempt was flat out dumb and uneccessary.
The Great ML
Maybe, but the biggest pop I gave for the show was Dwight haulin' it about 50 yards to spear Michael's mushrooms out of his mouth, after he swore he'd let him die.

ML
sydneybrown

Seemed like they missed a joke opportunity by having Michael only bring one tape. I kept waiting for the tape to run out at the beginning.

Not one of my favorites either, but I liked the dynamic of Jim not being the "popular" one for a change with his ideas being shot down by the others. This was more of a character-building episode moreso than a funny ha-ha one.

There definitely seemed to be a "Homer-ish" moment after Michael ate the mushrooms, and as he saw Dwight run towards him, proceeded to chew FASTER.
MGFanJay
Jim becoming Michael in this episode was fantastic, especially since he clearly tried to avoid being like him so obviously at times, but still fell into the same traps. The "I won't be here in ten years... yeah, that's what I said" scene, followed by Jim's blank stare was a classic moment. Will that lead him to accept an unsatisfying, but secure life? Or try to make the best of it while also following his dreams, like Pam is doing?
Robert
QUOTE
There were a few funny moments, but Michael's "Survivorman" attempt was flat out dumb and uneccessary.


YES. The joke got old right after he took off his pants. Rest of the episode made up for it though. I wonder what sort of cliffhanger we're gonna get so quickly if the strike isn't settled.

Rob
Johnny Sorrow
QUOTE(CodySave @ Nov 8 2007, 10:34 PM) *
The Office seemed off tonight because of having to fit NBC's "Green Week" episode theme requirements.

My Name Is Earl did it in a great way, namely by flat out making fun of the entire idea while doing it.
Roman Coke
Jim's face when Phyliss accidentally called him Michael was hilarious.
piranesi
QUOTE
Jim's face when Phyliss accidentally called him Michael was hilarious.


That and "Conference room?"

"Yes, conference room in five minutes, everybod.....no, we're not going in there."

This week to me was the week they brought back original, creepy, but not cartoonish Creed.

The only thing I thought was a bit forced was having Jim suddenly dislike Toby. They didn't really have time to make that work.
offspring515
The B story was awesome. The A story was horrible. I would dread every time they switched back to Michael/Dwight.
tlingman
QUOTE(piranesi @ Nov 9 2007, 11:30 AM) *
QUOTE
Jim's face when Phyliss accidentally called him Michael was hilarious.


That and "Conference room?"

"Yes, conference room in five minutes, everybod.....no, we're not going in there."

This week to me was the week they brought back original, creepy, but not cartoonish Creed.

The only thing I thought was a bit forced was having Jim suddenly dislike Toby. They didn't really have time to make that work.


I thought the Jim hating Toby part was to nail down the "Jim is acting like Michael" storyline, and in that sense it worked great. Of course Jim has no reason to dislike Toby, especially since Toby was being as reasonable in that scene as he is to Michael. Maybe Michael's office is inhabited by evil brain-destroying spirits.

I agree with everyone that said the A-story wasn't great (although tearing apart the pants and then duct-taping them back together was priceless), but the B-story and the ensuing Jim/Michael scene were tremendous. This show just throws layers upon layers at you every week, even in character-building episodes like this one. There was something really great and oddly sweet about Jim being able to laugh at Michael's "that's what she said" stuff.

Anybody else get a kick out of the way Pam stuck it to Jim in this episode?
BorneAgain
QUOTE(tlingman @ Nov 9 2007, 03:01 PM) *
QUOTE(piranesi @ Nov 9 2007, 11:30 AM) *
QUOTE
Jim's face when Phyliss accidentally called him Michael was hilarious.


That and "Conference room?"

"Yes, conference room in five minutes, everybod.....no, we're not going in there."

This week to me was the week they brought back original, creepy, but not cartoonish Creed.

The only thing I thought was a bit forced was having Jim suddenly dislike Toby. They didn't really have time to make that work.


I thought the Jim hating Toby part was to nail down the "Jim is acting like Michael" storyline, and in that sense it worked great. Of course Jim has no reason to dislike Toby, especially since Toby was being as reasonable in that scene as he is to Michael. Maybe Michael's office is inhabited by evil brain-destroying spirits.


Jim just seemed really frustrated at that point with everything going on, and with Toby's luck he was the one that Jim took it out on.
HACC Piston
With the half-hour episode, the camping story didn't feel so bad as a network mandated story. The Jim/Toby animosity has been hinted at all season (Toby being a dick about Jim/Pam, the Finer Things Club). It feels like they picked the wrong episodes to make hour-longs this season. They all seemed to drag, while the recent episodes feel cut short (last week's deleted scenes were great, and this episode has 5 due).
J. Walter Weatherman
It definitely could have been much better as an hour-long episode. The Dwight/Michael story never really went anywhere, which is a shame as Michael's Les Stroud bits were dead on.
Jonny Law
QUOTE(HACC Piston @ Nov 9 2007, 03:40 PM) *
With the half-hour episode, the camping story didn't feel so bad as a network mandated story. The Jim/Toby animosity has been hinted at all season (Toby being a dick about Jim/Pam, the Finer Things Club). It feels like they picked the wrong episodes to make hour-longs this season. They all seemed to drag, while the recent episodes feel cut short (last week's deleted scenes were great, and this episode has 5 due).


Last season, when Jim returned to Scranton, Toby tried to give Jim respect knuckles, and Jim pretty much shat on him saying something like "Oh, what's that? Is that your new thing?"
NapDaddy
I really think people are reading too much into the Jim/Toby animosity. I don't think Jim's aware of Toby's crush on Pam, for one thing. For another, the knuckles thing I saw as Toby trying to connect and failing. Just a little throw away joke.
Stuttsy
QUOTE(HACC Piston @ Nov 9 2007, 03:40 PM) *
With the half-hour episode, the camping story didn't feel so bad as a network mandated story. The Jim/Toby animosity has been hinted at all season (Toby being a dick about Jim/Pam, the Finer Things Club). It feels like they picked the wrong episodes to make hour-longs this season. They all seemed to drag, while the recent episodes feel cut short (last week's deleted scenes were great, and this episode has 5 due).


I couldn't agree with this more. It definitely feels like the wrong episodes were made hour long, as the 30:00 shows have had way more story to tell than any of those.
EVA
The funniest thing about Michael's pants to me was that, judging by the timer on his camera, he ruined his pants.....and then ended up taping them back together roughly an hour and a half later.
Manos99
QUOTE(J. Walter Weatherman @ Nov 9 2007, 03:57 PM) *
It definitely could have been much better as an hour-long episode. The Dwight/Michael story never really went anywhere, which is a shame as Michael's Les Stroud bits were dead on.


If only he had broken out "I hate the idea of killing an animal, but in the wild you do what you have to to survive". It's a running joke between my brother and I that Les Stroud is a self-hating survival expert.
Freeway
Reminder: Tonight is the last new episode of The Office until the WGA strike is over.
Stuttsy
Awesome and incredibly cringe-inducing so far.

Does anyone know how many Scrubs are left? Is tonight the last one for them too?
Hollinger.
God this episode is dark.
Manos99
That was really, really brutal.

Though, Toby laughing at Michael's diary entries about Ryan was absolutely awesome.
sydneybrown

Probably the best episode of the season. Absolutely cruel stuff. I felt partially drained after watching it, and that's a good thing.
NickMD
It was bittersweet seeing this with the knowledge of the strike and the possibility of not seeing this for a while. I loved the whole ping-pong sub-plot, it was light-hearted in a way and it was great. It was kind of needed to sort of balance out the whole thing with the Michael/Jan trial. But the ending was rough with Michael and Jan in the car.
Jrag
So this might have been my favorite episode of the show ever. It was super depressing and all, but it should lead to Michael being redeemed. It seems that the show has really just flipped some roles around this season. Jim and Pam were the emotionally complex characters that you really pulled for, and Michael was the guy who provided the slapstick stuff. Now Michael is become the emotional center and Jim and Pam are getting more involved with the B story humor at this point. I like it.

There was a lot of telling things in this episode. Things that should lead to great great moments if the WGA strike doesn't last forever. They really made some things clear in my mind. Yes Michael is a bad boss and sure he doesn't have the financial mind of Jan or Ryan for example, but he has something the two of them don't have. At his core he is a good guy.

That is why he didn't get demoted when Jan repeatedly called for it, and thats why he will be around long after Ryan is gone. He has this childlike goodness that the main coporate guy admires. It is clear that Ryan isn't in the same boat.

Even though there was a whole lot of depressing stuff in this episode, I think there was also some of the funnier moments in the shows history.

Toby trying to help Michael only for Michael to knock his food off the table was pretty fucking hilarious. It was even better when Toby started busting up about the Ryan stuff.

O and Dwight kicking the shit out of Jim in ping pong was pretty awesome as well.



PaulS
When Michael went to sit down with Toby at lunch I was thinking "Oh man. So it's come to this for Michael Scott." Then Toby tries to help Michael with a deeply personal story... and Michael slaps his lunch off the table. They fucking got me there. That was awesome. Toby breaking his usual calm demeanor and laughing his ass off at the Ryan mentions in the journal (while, oddly enough, no one else in the room knows who this "Ryan" character is) seemed like enough payback for Toby.

Kelly's smack talk in this episode was awesome. It made her a lot cuter than normal. Pam and Kelly THROWING DOWN in a match to finally settle things and being totally inept was really great too.

Poor Jan. If Chinese food is her thinking of a less costly alternative, then she is in for a long period of adjustment. There is probably only so many dollar menu days and Hamburger Helper nights that she can take. It was sort of sweet that her and Michael seemed solidly together at the end after all they had been through that day. Desperation is a powerful trap.
Beek
Definitely one of the best episodes... Having the picture bite Michael in the ass was great
Just the whole concept of Michael's diary getting out was great
Laughter abound

I laughed so hard when Michael said he was feeling irie

Toby was awesome
MGFanJay
This was just a perfect episode. The A story with Michael and Jan had even more uncomfortable moments than I expected thanks to his diary and the picture being brought into things. Then the Michael and Toby stuff... just tremendous. The stuff with Ryan was excellent and I thought it made perfect sense that no one other than Toby got it, because the corporate folks (and Jan) had no idea that Michael had feelings for Ryan, only the Scranton folks know of it. The B story was just what this episode needed - a light-hearted break from the incredibly dark happenings in New York. Pam stood by Jim, Dwight kicked ass, Darryl got screen time, Kelly sang yet another horrible pop song, and I laughed.
Fat Spanish Waiter
I really don't enjoy this show, and rarely catch it...

...but this was fucking great.
piranesi
My favorite line was "You're momma's so fat, she could eat the internet."

That was just a great piece of television...I think.

I'm not really sure what to think about this. I got the sense they were trying to convey what was said upthread...that Michael is safe at Dunder Mifflin because Wallace genuinely likes him, flaws and all. But I had this horrible feeling that the company was just going to turn around and fire him anyway. It's like that moment at the end didn't have quite the uplifting feeling they were aiming for. It was just so damned depressing. Hearing those performance reviews and Wallace's testimony...it was like a recurring nightmare/paranoia fantasy coming true. That was harder to sit through than anything on the UK version because they've pushed Michael's naive idealism to the point that he is completely without David Brent's impenetrable confidence. He was utterly exposed and vulnerable in that scene. It was like watching someone beat a puppy.

They've built up a lot of good will on the part of the viewers toward Michael and his wide-eyed innocence and they're paying it off now. But I almost wish there had been one more scene with him back at the office, maybe a moment where Pam makes a gesture to comfort him to parallel that great moment from "Business School."

Instead we're left with a long fermata perched on anxiety...not irie...not at all.

Or maybe they've made him too nice? As he seems less and less powerful in the lives of his employees and locked in these various abusive relationships with his girlfriend/company all we're left with is that in the end is that "He's a nice guy" is all that now defines him...but I don't think there's terribly much to learn from that, or observe in that and all that is left is to alternate happy and sad, tension and reconciliation, kick the puppy/feed the puppy, week by week, over and over, for another season or two.

As Michael and the other main characters become more lovable and familiar, the antagonism is always now coming from outside..from corporate, from Jan, from clients. That can lead to great moments like tonight's episode, but it also robs the office itself of the tension that was always there before. It's like we're in the second act of a movie that started with biting satire and flawed characters and is moving quickly toward the big rescue and a big group dance number over the closing credits...not coincidentally like the ending of every Steve Carrell movie.
Stuttsy
I soooo want the cold open for the 1st episode after the writer's strike to be Dwight & Mose playing ping pong in the warehouse and someone comes down the stairs and asks them how long they've been down there.
NickMD
Oh, shit, I almost forgot to mention Michael being called out on the "That's what she said" line. It was awkward and all, but the fact that he can't help saying it even when testifying was funny stuff.
Mike Rose
"Line"

Was my line of the night. Michael manages a "That's what she said" into just about every episode, so it's not as side splittingly funny as it could have been.

I felt like this was a dark, yet powerful episode in that Michael realized that his company and David Wallace were loyal to him, but Jan wasn't. The show was great and I will need to watch it about 5 more times off the DVR, before I get all the in-jokes.
CodySave
One thing I noticed that hasn't been mentioned is at the very end, when Michael and Jan are deciding what to eat for dinner, Michael actually got the upper hand and made the final decision. I can't remember another situation where Michael made a decision for both him and Jan, or even got what he wanted.
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