Here's a quick and snappy intro to the TOM lists, or there will be.

Discussion of the lists should be done in a separate thread.

Awesome, TOM.

The WW thread can stand, discussion can go elsewhere. This thread is just for the lists. You should be able to edit them later, even if closed. If not, let me know.

As of right now, I know Danny Lauzon is back training with Team Aggression. I don't know if he is heading back out to Arizona or not.

All updated again as of this morning.

Thanks for the update TOM. I was just about to request one.

Timmy

Fantastic work, as ever.

Incidentaly, Ian Freeman is with Wolfslair now.

I don't think that Swick is top 10 MW, but #42 seems a bit extreme even before the Loiseau fight.

Why?

Who had he beaten before Loiseau?

Well, he may have a point..

He beat Joe Riggs, who beat your #22 Joe Doerksen..

I thought that was kind of how your rankings system worked?

And Doerksen beat Leben who smoked Swick. So there goes that one.

Now let's jump to the next conclusion please.

Well I'm probably not going to win here, but I'm going to TRY to beat you at your own game..

Leben beat Swick 1/16/04
Doerksen beat Leben 5/14/04
Riggs beat Doerksen 8/21/04
Swick beat Riggs 5/27/06

If the Penn/Hughes 1/31/04 fight doesn't hold much stock, then surely a fight 2 weeks earlier wouldn't either?

--

Also, just out of curiosity, why are Herman & Grove ranked so high?

I admit to being a bit shocked that Nog is still at #2.

Just wanted to note I fucking love your lists, I'm just trying to understand them a bit better..

Yes, Riggs was beaten by Swick. At the time Riggs had been (and still is) fighting regularly in a lower weight class. Somewhat unevenly at that. Thus that win didn't carry as much weight as if Riggs was a ranked MW fighter.

I'm not playing a direct who beat who game. That was Casebolt. My system is more arguable (thus the constant arguing and why I never used to post 'em). That said, I think it holds up a little better than the ol' Ryan Gracie (or whatever strange character it was) is #1 Casebolt list. Probably just by sheer quantity though.

If it is any consolation to you currently Mike Swick is holding down # 12 at MW. MW is falling apart again with recent wins/losses.

And I am kinda guessing 'cause I'm not doing any immediate research right this moment but I believe that Ed Herman has defeated several decent/good opponents who at the time he defeated them had been ranked much higher than they currently are (ie, Dave Menne). Grove more or less worked his way up from nothing with TUF and most importantly by beating Mr. Herman. I was never even slightly impressed with him before TUF but he looked like a different man during the show.

Not sure how that Penn comment is meant to be read. The first Hughes fight does hold water. It's what keeps Penn as highly ranked as he is. He hasn't won a single fight at WW since beating up and down one-dimensional LW/WW Duane Ludwig in K-1 and has only had the two recent UFC losses in that class since then.

Cool man, was just curious and all. I'll stop arguing if it's pissing you off, I just wanted to have a bit of fun with it..

Man, Joey just KILLED Pulver. Come on dude!

Look at the fucking date, motherfucker. The posted list is NOT updated. If you want me to post updated versions just ask.

I've got Lauzon at # 27 post beating Pulver.

Touche. My apologies.

Apology accepted. You are a good man.

On average about how often does the list get updated?

On average, whenever TOM gets around to it.

I update the list every day or evey other day.

I edit the lists here once in a while 'cause I just hate editing/cut and pasting 'em. Seems like a nuisance.

If there's any interest shown in the list ever I update it then. If not then it's whenever I see fit.

Lists updated again to reflect changes from Combined Forces 10/6, DEEP 26th Impact and UFN 7.

Updated to reflect changes resulting from WEC 24, M-1 10/12, KOTC 10/13, Shooto 10/14, APEX 10/14 and UFC 64.

Just out of interest Tom, why is Nick Thompson ranked so highly still at WW? Unless I'm missing something his only major wins there are against Neer and Wisniewski and he got seriously tooled by Parisyan, while Riggs, who's ranked below him, has beaten Diaz and Lytle at WW with his only loss there being to Hughes. I mean, I understand how the lists work (I think!) but I'm confused by this ranking.

For sure you are correct. Riggs should above him. I think I dropped him a little when I thought he was going back up to MW. When he went right back to welter to fight Van Flue and then signed to lose to Sanchez he should have popped back ahead of the Goat. Consider this corrected sir.

Updated lists as of 11/12.

Can we get updated lists, TOM? Please?

I second Mr Newman.

Alright, I finally got my new computer set up so I should finally be able to get going on my huge backlog of updates. It'll probably take a week though.

any progress, Tom?

A very little. It's rough re-ordering every single fighter since I can't just cut and paste these from here and have 'em Word formatted already for numbering.

About how long does it take you to update the lists? I would imagine that you would wait until the weekends fights are over with so that your list wouldn't be outdated a day after it was put up. And how do you get all your info about the smaller show guys who fight on events that don't have a TV, PPV or DVD deal?

Normally (pre-computer meltdown) it takes about 5 minutes to update for a single big show. Now I basically have to remake the lists and then update them. That isn't so easy or fun. Especially since I have been working a real job a lot lately due to general incompetence on everyone else's part at work.

All the smaller show stuff is gathered from a variety of sources I may come across but primarily results from all shows are easy to find.

Alright, I finally updated these. They SHOULD stay updated now easily. If you see any glaring oversights mention them please. I am going off about 2 or more months of old results and something may have slipped past me.

And hey, middleweights hit the big 300 for the first time.

I am obligated to point out that Chris Wilson destroyed Rory Markham at the IFL finals.

See? I think I forgot about that whole show.

Alright sir, fixed that and related material. Chris Wilson is now better represented.

You keep mispelling BJ Penn's name when you do your top ten welters. This week you have him written as "J-O-N-F-I-T-C-H" or something

TH

Word, you the man TOM. Only thing that stuck out to me - shouldn't Shinya Aoki be ranked as a LW now, as he's had his last three fights in PRIDE at that weight class?

PRIDE lightweights weighing in at 160 pounds = much grey area, I imagine.

Am I missing something or are you missing Ryoto Machida on the LHW rankings?

he's there. "LYOTO"

I thought that Lyoto was his nickname and Ryoto being his actual first name.

Correct from my point of view.

Poor Sherk. He gets the belt but TOM's still all "hell no"

Well, he'll at least be in the top 20 after he beats Franca (who Sherk is going to have under complete control at all times if the Varner match is any indication), then he'll have a crack at TOM's oh-so-prestigious top 10 when he defends against Stevenson.

He may not be getting the respect he deserves now, but it's all just a matter of time.

I think it's actually 73kg that they fight at, which is 160.6lbs, which is 161lbs, and so OH MAN EVEN GREYER, the area is.

A worthless title at this point, maybe more that I think if Sherk is really hurt that bad.

Come again? I understand the worthless point, but I really don't get what that last part meant, the wording is throwing me off.