Tapatia Awards?, Cubsfan blog Options

[Phil Schneider]

http://www.thecubsfan.com/cmll/

Figured we would get some discussion going here for these. I kind of want to wait to vote until I get my hands on the next batch of lucha TV out there. Figure that Santo v. Atlantis, Santo v. UG and Santo/Casas v. Averno/Memphisto might put Santo into discussion for Wreslter of the year. Plus I really want to see how good Haloween v. Universo 2000 is.

I think Universo is going to be my Wrestler of the Year in lucha, and I wish I had voted for him in the WON awards. For lucha canidates I think he is even better then Perro Jr., he was in every big drawing main event (tag hair v. Perros, 3 way hair match with Garza and Perro, and hair v. Haloween) and has been as good as anyone in the ring. Capos v. Perros Del Mal was easy feud of the year and he should get as much credit as Perro Jr. for that.

Phil

[nuclear jackalop...]

It's actually spelt "Tapatia" but anything that helps get Lucha over is cool by me!

edit:It's spelt right over there. Interesting site, thanks for the link, I never saw it before!

[Robert]

I meant to make mention of this in the $hills folder thinking it wouldn't be right to post here but kept forgetting. It's a good thing Phil brought it up though. The turnout last year was pretty small so everyone is encouraged to vote. Even if you only want to submit votes and no comments or submit just votes for Wrestler and Match of the year instead of the other categories, just go for it. It's better than having only 5 or 6 people vote. Cubsfan's blog has the ballot and you just have to cut/paste it and e-mail to: luchaawards@thecubsfan.com

I'm still waiting for Cubs to clear up what exactly Wrestler of the Year is but here are my comments I posted over there a few days ago...

Mistico - As you said, a no doubter. If you understand anything about Lucha Libre, Mistico has to be in your top #5. Not saying he has to be everyone's #1(though most likely he'll be mine), but I dare anyone to name 5 other wrestlers who have more qualifications than Mistico to be Wrestler of the Year.

Perro Aguayo Jr. - Same thing I said about Mistico applies here.

Atlantis - I doubt he'll crack my list though I haven't made my picks yet. If I had to vote right now, I doubt he'd make it just b/c the first seven months of the year were pretty boring for him aside from passing the tag titles onto Averno/Mephisto. He showed no fire at all until the Wagner feud and even then he went against the fans boo'ing him and tried even harder to be a tecnico until he was finally forced to be a rudo. And like I've said in other places, I'm not sold on him as a rudo yet though supposedly he starts to get great in November so we just gotta see the new batch of TV soon. If we were just judging on the last 2-3 months of the year as the Mexican magazines do, he'd be a no-brainer but we aren't gonna do that thankfully.:)

Dr. Wagner Jr. - I'd say for certain he'll be in my top #5. Granted, I am not a huge fan of his work as he often dogs it anywhere else but Arena Mexico and even in Arena Mexico his shtick is pretty predictable if you've been following Lucha for any length of time. Still... he draws people, he's popular and even half-assing it he's still working harder than a lot of guys who have main event roles.

Konnan - Barely spends time in Mexico. When he does, he's lazy and only books angles for himself where he is in a big match and can have someone else doing the bumping for him. Was a draw inititally when he came back but IMO his current drawing power in Mexico is SEVERELY OVERRATED.

Vampiro - See Konnan's comments minus having someone bump for him. Unfortunately he tries to bump himself. He's still a draw but he doesn't fit into the scheme of things in AAA and his jump was handled poorly. He wouldn't make my top 20.

Gronda XXX - He wouldn't make my top 5 no matter what but my question now would be what criteria are we using for Wrestler of the Year? Workrate or drawing power? Or both combined? If it's just workrate, he wouldn't be in my top 500. If it's just drawing power, he'd be #6. If it's a combo of both, he'd be behind lots and lots of people who can draw and work.

La Parka Jr. - He's gotten really lazy in the ring. I used to always stand up for him and say sure he does a ripoff gimmick but he tries hard in the ring and still does spots he doesn't have to do but that is not the case any more. Seems content to just dance through matches and do comedy. He's fallen big time and thus won't crack my top 5.

Latin Lover - Borderline. It seems he has picked up his game which is the total opposite of La Parka Jr.. Lover used to be the guy to sleepwalk through matches but now thanks to Chessman he actually seems to try hard and do stuff he doesn't have to do for a guy who works only two/three times a month. He's still the main guy in AAA no matter what anyone says and is one of only three wrestlers in my opinion who would have a major impact if they jumped from AAA to CMLL.

Universo 2000 - Borderline. He really is the total package of rudos unless you're Dave Meltzer who fast forwards all of Universo's matches. He carried the Pierroths/Capos feud in late 2004 and then elevated Perrito's game big time during the Perros/Dinamitas feud. Real intense wrestler who can bring the best out of an opponent that tries to sleepwalk through his matches. One big plus I'll give him is he never mails it in on all the smaller shows I've seen. Same intensity and willingness to take that cornerpost bump at the snap of a finger. (After thinking it over more the next day I came to the conclusion he really isn't borderline, he's definitely gonna be in my top 5, it's just a matter of where now. Another plus I'm gonna give him is his hard work seems to have inspired Mascara Ano 2000 whose late 2005 work has looked AMAZING so far.)

Dark Angel - MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! You crack me up Cubs. Her only chance of winning is if you go $hill the awards on Ernesto's board.

Ultimo Guerrero - He'll be in my top 3 with Mistico and Perrito. I just haven't decided the order yet. I guess it depends on how you answer my above question. Guerrero is a machine... there really is nothing else to say. Really, I sat here for 5 minutes trying to think of something to say about Ultimo but I just couldn't. That's not a negative... it's just you really need not say anything, he should be an automatic.

Hector Garza - Definitely gonna get consideration to fill in the end of my list. I dunno how well he draws but I think he's very underrated in the sense of what he brings out of his partners and opponents. Perrito never hit his stride in CMLL until Garza was brought in and Perrito felt more comfortable doing the shtick he wanted to do... the shtick he did with Garza in AAA. If Garza hadn't have jumped, I really doubt Perrito would have got the confidence to do what he does teaming with the like of Tarzan Boy and Terrible. When it comes to his opponents, Garza is just great at making them look like a million bucks. He's actually my third favorite guy to work with Mistico ahead of both Averno and Mephisto. I have a feeling Garza will get overlooked on some ballots but hopefully there will be enough support to get him into the overall top 5.

Negro Casas - Have never been a big supporter of his but from the first year I watched Lucha regularly(1997) till this past year... I gotta say, 2005 was the year I most enjoyed his work. There could be a direct relation between me enjoying his work and him not getting a main event run though. I have no problem with Casas in the ring until he does his stupid phony injury angles and somehow manages to start a feud that is meant for someone else. The Santo/Negro vs Averno/Mephisto thing sure came out of nowhere but it made sense to me and the right people went over. There was no need to have Santo/Mistico teaming and jobbing right away, even if it was gonna be a hard fought match. Negro has been brilliant this year and kept himself in a position on the card that I can tolerate him in. Would love to see him and Bucanero have a feud in 2006, perhaps with Bucanero getting a much needed big match stipulation win. In fact, I'd even set it up with a Santo vs Guerrero match for the WWA Welterweight Title where Santo wins due to Negro's interference, Bucanero makes a challenge and there's your March main event. I know, I fantasy book too much. It'll just be the usual: Perrito/Aguila/Garza vs Capos in a cage.:)

Shocker - He started the year strong but I can't say enough about how his AAA jump bombed. It was huge news when it happened but then he entered AAA and did NOTHING. Hell, he didn't even show up at the biggest show of the year b/c of his TNA commitments. Then when he finally made regular appearences, he couldn't decide if he was a face or a heel and had nobody to work with. Konnan/Vampiro stole the spotlight from him as well which didn't help. His work has suffered to as aside from when he is in the ring with Chessman, he looks like a typical lost AAA main eventer. I'm a fan of Shocker but I dunno... maybe he is just an illusion of the amazing CMLL top rudos? He won't be on my top 5.

Rey Bucanero - I love the guy... but no. Not a draw on his own. Great worker... but stuck in the shadow of the best worker in Mexico. Barring a shocking face turn, can't see him ever breaking out of Ultimo's shadow.

El Hijo Del Santo - Always a candidate. Will stay borderline for me until I can think up ways to not have him in my top 5. One strike against him is from all the stuff I've seen of his later in the year, he is very repetitive with everything he does. He used to be like that but now it really stands out when everyone is trying new stuff and he's doing... well... let me just describe everything he does: headscissors on the mat, armdrag to send rudo outside, gets tagged in and does a kneelift, bodyscissors on one rudo and headscissors on another rudo, gets tossed into the air to dropkick one rudo outside, spinning armdrag on the other rudo to send him outside, tope suicida. Voila. Add in a third fall plancha off the top and diving tope/camel clutch finish and that's all you will ever see from Santo. So workrate wise he's had a really disapointing year. He will always be a draw though but I doubt that's enough to carry him onto my list.

You missed:

Cibernetico - He's one of the more important AAA guys but I'd say no. He'd make my top 20 though assuming this isn't workrate centered.

La Parka - Shame Alfredo is sitting on all that indy stuff with Parka from 2005 as that is almost all we have to go on when ranking him. His short CMLL appearences were spectacular but I'd need more footage to rank him overall with the the other guys mentioned above. You'd have to think with weekly TV or even just two appearences per month, he'd be an easy top 5 candidate.

Also cutting/pasting my thoughts for Promotion of the Year and Best Rivalry...

Arena Mexico/Arena Coliseo - Easy winner. I wonder if voting is even neccessary. The day better come where Arena Coliseo shows are available online, even if it is at a small cost.

Arena Coliseo De Guadalajara - Fun weekly TV. Horrible editing. Used to complain about only getting two matches and now we get three and even sometimes four which just leads to everything being chopped up horribly. Now I would seriously prefer going back to two. Problem with this building is feuds are rare and if they even exist, they end in two weeks or three at most.

Arena Naucalpan(aka IWRG) - TV suffers from what it will always has suffered from... blandness. Every singles opener and tag segunda is the same damn match every week except with one or two different spots. The tercera is usually a trios match with guys doing as little as possible. The top two matches are generally screwjob heavy. My only positive towards IWRG is you get to see a lot of guys you normally wouldn't see without them having TV. Also once in a blue moon you will get a blowaway match with the locals. Don't expect it from the stars though as they will always treat this building as a night off.

Gimnasio Nuevo Leon/Arena Solidaridad - Can't vote for either of these b/c Fredo is just starting to list stuff from 2005.

Arena Coliseo De Monterrey(AAA) - This is the show that is available over the internet. Screwjob heavy to the MAX! It's not uncommon for every match to be decided with a low blow or referee screwiness. Probably the worst TV show out there.

AAA - My easy #2. I have no problem with AAA TV and am very happy they have an extended time slot now so they can show entire events within the span of one week and sometimes two. Bonus points for allowing the dark match guys(i.e. locals from the area) to get TV time and try and impress. In my ideal world, CMLL's talent gets AAA TV's time. Sorta like this past week's CMLL show where an entire card aired. We need more of those. But back to AAA... ignoring the work, they promotion revolves around TV. If you want evidence of that, just look at Histeria vs Psicosis from 7/29 in Madero where the finish involved hanging Histeria upside down outside the arena and Psicosis running back into the ring to win by countout. Live... the fans had no clue what happened. On TV... it makes sense and is a pretty funny angle in my opinion. Since they rely on TV so much, they try to make the best use of it as possible.

Arena Neza - I know the booker and he's a real genius. However the building is in a shitty part of Mexico City so it will never draw and the only thing that goes on here is getting undercarders/midcarders/main eventers working together to get them ready for when people get elevated at Arena Coliseo/Arena Mexico. In a perfect world, this stuff gets taped for TV and replaces Guerreros Del Ring. Or even better, gets put online as an internet show.

I would start talking about Tijuana but I haven't seen much footage and so many promotions run cards down their... every week is a different promotion so it's impossible to judge them.

Best rivalry...

My mind is starting to go blank so I'll have to think this one through some more. I really loved Mistico/Averno and Mistico/Ultimo, the latter moreso. The feud pops up every once in a while and every time it does it's good for business and brings forth an entertaining match. Perrito/Universo is obviously another candidate though I felt after the hair match in March, the feud dragged big time and aside from 2 or 3 decent matches in the summer, I really had no interest in their hate for each other until Mr. Aguila jumped and the Capos/Perros Del Mal feud was taken to a new level. That happened late in the year though so I'm tempted not to pick it. Mistico/Perrito was too short of a feud to rank higher than Mistico/Ultimo and Mistico/Averno. Los Casas Bros. vs La Familia early in the year was really good but also suffers from being too short. Wagner/Ultimo feuded throughout the year but never had that big singles match which would have given them more possible votes... or at least my possible vote. As for AAA... Konnan/LLL vs Vampiro/AAA may be the biggest joke feud of the year. Histeria/Psicosis/Nicho's 3 way which has now just turned into Histeria vs Psicosis was entertaining to me. It sounded dumb from the reports but after watching it on TV, it made more sense and the head games Histeria played with his ex-friend Psicosis was cool. They need to bring Mosco and Maniaco back and... okay, no more fantasy booking Rob. Like I said, my mind is blank right now but maybe something else will come to me tomorrow.

Best Tecnico/Rudo are basically spin-offs from Wrestler of the Year except Universo will be eliminated since he plays neutral. Then again you can say the same thing about Perrito so I dunno. Tecnico is a hard pick too since I want to vote Mistico but both Parka's and Wagner are serious contenders.

Best Legend is just something I'll decide on the spur of the moment. I still think the age requirement should be higher since a lot of luchadors wrestler into their 50's so there is no need for guys between 40-45 to be eligible. I mean if Olimpico is competing for this award... well that's just not right.

Best Female is kind of an oxymoron.

Most Improved/Underrated I'll post my comments on later since the Leafs are back on in two minutes.

I won't comment on Match of the Year until I actually make my own list of candidates up. Didn't hear good things about Santo/Atlantis but Santo/UG and Santo/Mistico vs UG/Atlantis were said to be amazing. One of the magazines even picked Santo/Negro vs Averno/Mephisto as its' MOTY. May have been Box y Lucha but we know that magazine always just picks a match that occurs late in the year from last year's debacle.

Rob

[Ryan Faulconer]

Match of the Year looks a little tricky. All matches that aired in 2005 are eligible. All the matches that happened in 2005 are also eligible. 2005 CMLL TV in the US lines up pretty nicely with the stuff I've seen though.

[AlfredoE]

La Parka - Shame Alfredo is sitting on all that indy stuff with Parka from 2005 as that is almost all we have to go on when ranking him. His short CMLL appearences were spectacular but I'd need more footage to rank him overall with the the other guys mentioned above. You'd have to think with weekly TV or even just two appearences per month, he'd be an easy top 5 candidate.

What indy stuff with La Parka am I sitting on? He's on like 1-2 of the Lucha Libre Azteca shows that I've received. If anything he was all over in 2004, but not a lot in 2005.

The one guy who would get some discussion though is actually Super Parka. I think he's a fun sleazy rudo in Nuevo Leon, but not enough to crack my top 5. I liked his trios match prior to the Mistico-Ultimo Guerrero match from Nuevo Leon.

I'm voting for Dark Angel and the Teletubbies!

[Robert]

No La Parka footage yet to be released? DOH! There goes my chance to sneak him into my top 5.:( Maybe I can pretend to have seen some unaired Coliseo matches...

Rob

[New Talking Wall]

I don't watch as much lucha as most others here, but Ultimo Guerrero is easily my pick for wrestler of the year. I never once saw him in a bad match. Even that match with Groon XXX was halfway decent, although that was mainly due to Groon refusing to take that powerbomb right and almost crippling himself.

CMLL has so many guys that one could make a case for, though, that it's just amazing. I can easily see claims of Perro Aguayo Jr., Mistico, Dr. Wagner Jr., Hector Garza or Universo as wrestler of the year.

As an aside, who all here voted for Perro Aguayo Jr. or Mistico in the WON awards? I voted for Ultimo, again, but was pleasantly surprised to see those two get so many votes.

[nuclear jackalop...]

The best match I saw of La Parka in the last year was his untelevised mano a mano with Pierroth. They went nuts, tore up the mask, Pierroth hit him in the head with a bucket, Parka bled all over the arena, Awesome! The fans gave parka over $300 after the match.

[Tim Evans]

i already mailed my list in. And i think i did Best promotion wrong. Oh well.

Since i hate mistico, he was the 5th best wrestler on my list. Behind Perro Aguayo Jr., Ultimo Guerrero, Dr. Wagner Jr. and tarzan boy.

I hope you guys put tiffany on your best female list. Does Pimpi count?

[Ryan Faulconer]

I hope you guys put tiffany on your best female list. Does Pimpi count?

I do believe cubsfan mentioned no exoticos!

Faby or Cynthia would get my vote if I had seen any AAA this year. I STILL haven't watched the July stuff yet where the women started appearing in CMLL.

[Kingm0b]

I do believe cubsfan mentioned no exoticos!

Faby or Cynthia would get my vote if I had seen any AAA this year.  I STILL haven't watched the July stuff yet where the women started appearing in CMLL.

That's already started filtering through TV (I think?) Lady Apache almost put on an enjoyable show with the other 3, but she kept playing to the crowd too much to the point that I noticed it more than anything else. Punch WAVE TO CROWD kick WAVE TO CROWD run the ropes WAVE TO CROWD. I wish Faby would have jumped promotions instead.

[Robert]

EDIT: I'm an idiot.

Rob

[thecubsfan]

I hate plugging my own stuff unprompted and vow not to do this again (for a year), but since I've got the info here:

Full awards rundown

Winners
Best Wrestler: Perro Aguayo Jr.
Best Match: 2005.02.25 Mistico vs Ultimo Guerrero
Best Singles Match: 2005.02.25 Mistico vs Ultimo Guerrero
Best Non-Singles Match: 2005.01.10 Reyes de Aires
Best Tecnico: Mistico
Best Rudo: Perro Aguayo Jr.
Best Female: Marcela
Best Promotion: CMLL Mexico City
Best Rivalary: Mistico vs Ultimo Guerrero
Best Legend (40 year+): LA Park
Most Improved: Maximo
Most Underrated: Hooligan & Volador Jr.

[Ryan Faulconer]

These were great, cubs. I had a lot of fun making selections and binging at the last minute to get my ballot in. I think I rewatched all the major Jan-August singles and 20something trios/torneo matches to refresh my memory. This was the first full year that I've been able to watch lucha like I've been wanting to since I started getting tapes in 2000. Having awards on top of that is icing on the cake.

I liked some of Robert's suggestions for new awards for next year's awards too. I still think a separate category for singles and non-singles is a good idea while Best Match probably isn't needed on top of that. I'm still a bit too Arena Mexico heavy in my voting but its a strong company and even a CMLL exclusive awards would provide a lot of variety.

[odessasteps]

13 people? now I'm really glad I voted.

[wdwz4]

Damn it, I missed the voting. I guess there is always next year now that i know about the Tapaita awards.

[Ryan Faulconer]

The usenet wrestling awards had around forty ballots total this past year. They have literally thousands of people posting there about wrestling but less than 10% voted in their 2005 awards.

Compared to other internet wrestling awards the Tapatia Awards are actually growing and healthy. What the lucha fanbase online lacks in numbers it makes up for in knowledge and enthusiasm and that's a fun athmosphere to be involved in. Sleaze is kept to a minimum and on topic discussions can be merged with off topic tangents without completely derailing the entire threads, if not the entire forums they are posted on.

[Robert]

How'd you miss hearing about the voting? Phil started this thread about a month before voting, Ryan posted two seperate threads for nominations and cubs mentioned it over and over and over on his blog which every fan should visit daily.

Right now my main concern is why Negro Casas was given Negro Navarro's points in the Legends category. HE SHOULD BE AUTOMATICALLY DISQUALIFIED!

I just glanced at the winners but intend to write something about them later on. Mistico/Ultimo winning MOTY surprised me.

Rob

[Phil Schneider]

Worst part is that Phil started this thread and forgot to vote.

Phil

[wdwz4]

I forgot about the deadline.