Tito Santana vs Paul Orndorff, (9/1/84 St. Louis, MO) Options

[(Mul)Doomstone]

[Misterfying]

Decent match, I thoght Orndorff looked good in this one, and the clothesline that he nails Tito with near the end is KILLER, with Tito's head bouncing off of the canvas in a way that makes you smile a little inside. The crowd is pretty hot for Tito in this one, and he is his usual solid, if sometimes unspectacular self.

Hard to rank a match like this above 50 though, because while it is a nice little encounter, it's kinda just there on occasion and will probably get lost in the shuffle by the time I work my way through the rest of the set.

[texanspaniard]

I really liked this one quite a bit. I thought Santana was pretty good, he was selling Orndorff's offense big time and it really rallied me behind him when he would make his comebacks. Orndorff came off really well too. Lots of action and was very competitive, back and forth type of match. Didn't go crazy for the time limit draw finish but otherwise I really dug this alot.

[jcl1]

If the finish in this match was not so anti-climatic i would have to say this would be my favorite match on disc 1 so far. Defintley forgot how enjyoable Tito's work is and am looking forward to seeing more of his work on this set....

[sydneybrown]

Great match with a lousy finish.

But this has the greatest clothesline I have ever seen in a wrestling match (at worst it may be top 3). The performance and the way it is touted in the aftermath is what they should be doing today.

I watched this match 18 years ago, and the way it is presented, they make it seem like it's a catastrophe and not in the Michael Cole "NOT LIKE THIS" or the Jim Ross "MY GOD!" way. But in the simple, the face let his guard down and the heel took advantage.

And any match that can make an atomic drop on the concrete effectively seem like death earns points anyway. This ends up top third for me probably.

[ChrisHenderson]

60/100. This match really suffers from being placed after a ton of great matches, which makes this good match look a little weaker in comparison. The beginning with Tito working the arm really didn't do it for me, kinda dragged the pace down. But Paul was great in this, that inverted atomic drop looked killer and of course the big clothesline. No fatal flaws in my mind, but nothing that makes it stand out above other superior matches on this and other DVDs. Mid-pack at best.

[TheFlairMark]

I agree, a surprisingly excellent match that got a little sloppy towards the end and has a terrible finish.

This is certainly top half material and could possibly work its way into the top third.

[jdw]

This is probably one of the best 20 matches in the collection. Smart work, good selling. Most matches of the 80s in the WWF had shitty finishes. It's the nature of the beast.


John

[onlxn]

Real fun one. I'd put it over the similar Steamboat/Hart, in fact, as the action was smoother here, and Orndorff showed a lot more heel charisma than Bret. While the execution of the draw was shitty (no build to it, not at a particularly climactic moment), the idea of Tito being saved by the bell works for me. Orndorff's the heel, but crowds always want to see title changes -- you come out of this wanting to see them fight for the belt again, to see if Tito can prove himself.

This is probably my favorite use of atomic-drops ever. The reverse bear-hug style one by Orndorff was just killer.

[antelope]

I thought this was quite good. Both guys look terrific throughout, especially in the beginning where Tito shows the difference between a wear down move and a rest hold. Watch how the entire time he has the armbar he cranks it in to really get the crowd into the move. Orndorff too does a great job selling it. The bearhuge atomic drop is a great transition, but the real thing that put those over the top for me was Tito going back on offense by punching Orndorff in the kidneys. That was a surprisingly mean move from Tito that showed some great fire. Good stuff.

[Marcos]

I would really recommend going back and watching this match if you have only seen it after watching all the other great stuff on disc 1.

While I can't necessarily place it as high as the two great Bret matches on that disc (vs. Perfect and Steamboat) I think psychologically it's actually one of the five best matches in the whole set. They just didn't have the physical stuff going on the level of say Steamboat-Bret, plus a draw finish is so overdone at that time.

What made me go back and watch it was Raven Mack's pimping of it. Not dissapointed at all. Tito's selling is so incredibly good. He really comes off as a top notch worker on this set, and especially in this match.

Another thing is Orndorff. This is such a great example of what he did well. In particular his two Atomic drops were the most believable times I've ever seen those moves used. I really believed Tito had a busted tailbone after taking that move which obviously shows just how well Tito was selling it. Quite the contrast to when Backlund hit Graham with it in their title match I just watched (not on the set obviously)

The thing is, the first time I watched it I was worn out from so much other great stuff on disc 1. Had this been in the middle of disc 2 amidst some of the ho hum stuff there, I think it would have stood out better. Only the finish keeps it from being top 5 on that disc (clearly the best of the discs for match quality). Again my recommendation is to go back and watch it. I put question marks by the matches I was unsure of or didn't pay enough attention to the first time I saw them and am going back now and not regretting it at all. I'd give it 4 stars to 4 1/2

[Cowboy Wally]

As it turns out that this was one of the matches wit one of the largest standard deviations, and our main man Chris (King of Stats) thought it might be interesting for people to say what they loved and hated, I wanted to weigh in on the love side.

Plenty of good people have talked about the work. All I can add is that I have rarely seen a match where the turning point (reverse atomic drop) was captured so well on camera, and had such an effect on the match. Following that move, Orndorff has the match in hand, and is headed for the win. That's excellent storytelling.

I think this is one of the best finishes I've ever seen for one simple reason:

It made me want to see what would happen between the two men if there was no time limit.

Could Orndorff have won with a few more minutes? Could Tito have come back? Was it flukey that Orndorff hit that reverse atomic drop that changed everything?

The match and the finish raised intriguing questions that I wanted answers to.

If you can raise that kind of interest with a 22 year old match, you have done something right.

Cowboy Wally

[Johnny Sorrow]

Is this the match with the insane (at the time) Tito bump on the rails? Cause that made me cringe when I was 14.